G.T. Fieros

Greater Toronto Fieros
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:12 am 
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wannabe

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Posts: 80
It was weird I didn't really hear much over the engine. Just wasn't accelerating and I couldn't move the shifter so I knew something was up


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:05 am 
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Creator of the SBC Fiero

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 100
A couple questions for.Kev:

Where did you get the stainless hardware (bolts) for the PLOG? (Specs would also help :) )

2 what size pulley on that Gen 3 blower? And what supporting mods other than the IC?

What was your best ET and Trap? Before your tranny said "I quit" :'(


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:48 pm 
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wannabe

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Posts: 80
Stainless hardware is easy:

http://zzperformance.com/3800/bolts/arp ... bolts.html

Its a Gen V blower with a 2.55" Pulley :)

Gen 3 Full size intercooler, 60lb injectors, plog + rear ported manifold, XPZ cam with custom pushrods, ZZP St3 heads, LS7 Lifters, Rollermaster double roller timing chain, 150# valve springs, I think that's everything.

So previous hear was on a gen 3 blower stock engine (including heads), 3" pulley stock cam and stock exhaust manifolds. It put about 250Whp and 305WTq on the dyno. My best was a 13.4@104 with a 1.99 60 ft on a pretty much perfect pass.

This year with all those mods I put down 318WHp and 339WTq at the dyno. I only made 1 pass (before the destruction), and it was taking it really easy on the launch. Missed 2nd, and hit the rev limiter on 2nd to 3rd, and I think I short shifted 3rd to 4th.

60 ft 2.184, 1/4 was 13.598 and MPH was 108.06

So it could have likely done low 13s at about 110 to 112 on the setup I had. I expect much better on the built 4T65HD I am going to put in with a higher stall converter.

Kevin


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Single again

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 292
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Despite having a throttle body that is both tilted, and in close proximity to the rear window, making a cold air intake was surprisingly simple.

I started with a silicone transition elbow from Vibrant Performance. It had one end 2.75" and the other at 3".
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After a little trimming, here is what it looked like.
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I had to remove the throttle cable holder and clearance it as well. You can see the original versus the one that I cut down.
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Then, I placed some loom to prevent chafing.
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After seeing the elbow cleared, I took the old antenna and formed it into a pattern for the intake tube.
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I went into my local Midas Muffler, bought a piece of 3" aluminized tubing and used their bender.
This is the result.
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As you can see, it fits well. I then drilled two holes. One for the IAT sensor and one for the fuel pressure regulator vacuum.
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From this photo, you can see the air filter.
Note: I still need to add a bracket to hold the intake tube secure.
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Then came time for some exhaust work.
Using these components, I made a system. It's tucked up tight and fits well.
Note: Yes it's loud! Too loud. I'll have to find some short mufflers.
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A view of the shortest catalytic converter that I had.
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Underside view.
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Cadillac STS tailpipes loosely installed.
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Since the car starts and runs, it's now time to make it shift.
Here is the issue that I encountered. The shift arm is placed at an angle that doesn't work for me.
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While others have had custom cables made, I chose a different approach.
I wanted to utilize the stock 84 four speed shift and select cables.
I removed the shift assembly from the F23.
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Then disassembled.
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Here is the stock shifter base.
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I made a CAD drawing and cut it on the laser.
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Then I cut off the boss for the select shift lever.
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Here are the new and old pieces side-by-side.
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As you can see, I also made two new arms for the select lever operation.
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Since my base plate is steel, I can weld my arms wherever I feel they're best suited.
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After some measuring, I filled the original dowel hole with weld. I then drilled a new hole in order to clock my shift arm into a better suited position.
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Of course the F23 ball stud didn't fit the 84 shift cable.
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Here, I removed the original F23 ball stud.
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Drilled and tapped the hole to the pitch of the original 84 Muncie ball stud.
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Here is the 84 ball stud on the F23 shift arm.
Note: I removed some material from the weight for clearance.
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While I did install a nut, it might have to be replaced with a thinner one for clearance.
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New base is installed.
I've used the original base, since it has the seal, and installed my new steel plate over top.
There is a small gap that will be filled prior to final installation.
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Followed by the re-clocked shift arm.
While it looks close, the weight on the left actually clears the frame rail.
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The shift cable has to fit in this vicinity.
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That lead me into a way to mount the cables. Back to the drawing board, I ended up with this revised design.
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I now have room to secure the shift and select cables.
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Simple angle iron turned into the cable holders. Easy peasy.
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It looks like this will work for the shift cable.
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In the last photo, the cable was mounted too high.
This is far better as it allows full range of motion from the shifter.
Note: I'll mill slots into the angle iron thus allowing adjustability and fine tuning of both shift and select cables.
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The stock 84 cables clear everything just fine.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:09 pm 
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Creator of the SBC Fiero

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 100
Kev, I'd expect much better dyno numbers with the second set up.

Was this on a Mustang Dyno? They tend to read low vs. A dynojet

I'm guessing you have the N* and lq4 MAF to go with that Gen 5

My prior setup. Gen 3 3.25 pulley XP cam PLOG 3" exhaust 105 valve springs 1.9 (?) Ratio rockers, double roller, etc put down 297 with a manual transmission.

This spring I'll be running an almost identical setup to yours minus the head work. I was hoping for high 300s at the wheels with a good tune.

Who did your tuning?

I think you can run low 12s maybe steady 11s with those mods if dialed in nicely. You car should be a beast :)

My car with the old setup ran a mid 12 (12.6 or 12.8) @120 according to the prior owner. I haven't tracked it, only random fun. Thumpr who's car runs low 14s high 13s can attest to how mine pulls ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:14 am 
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wannabe

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Posts: 80
No I am on the stock L67 TB, with a ghetto intake (basically an air filter sitting on the TB), and the exhaust is questionable. I do my own tuning, as I have been tuning cobalts for years. Its not a dynojet.

As far as I know nobody has ever dynoed 400 on a gen 3 or 5 blower without nitrous or something else major. Without headwork I would be impressed to see anything over 320 or 330. This dyno is pretty accurate stock LNF coablts always dyno in the 235 to 245 range so its not a high or low reading dyno. I know for my track times that transmission was really holding me back, so once I get it all back together with a built auto I will work on the TB/intake and exhaust.

I never get hung up on the dyno numbers themselves, more the gains (or losses) after I make changes to judge how everything is working.

Oh ya, I think the drivers side rear caliper was seized during the dyno, as I had to replace it after, so that probably robbed some power too :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:13 pm 
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Creator of the SBC Fiero

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 100
That certainly explains a bit. iirc from talking to Will who used to be the tuning guru, the highest whp attained with a blower in Ontario was 386 ish at the wheels (in an auto which has higher drive train loss). It would be nice to find the extra 14, it's just a fun goal. If I was chasing hp, I'd be turboing it. I believe one just set the marks at over 700whp (in a GP with a getrag 284 swap)

When I swapped from a WAI to running a fender well intake behind my mecham scoop my IAT reading went down 20 to 40 F depending on the ambient temp outside of the car. The intake tubing off the same truck that has the lq4 MAF you need is 3.5 inches, Darth and several others use it on the swaps. Once you do those and swap to a N* you'll probably make a nice gain.

I imagine that l67 tb is creating a bottleneck.

How many psi of boost are you reading at WOT with the 2.55?

With a good launch I think 1.7 to 1.8 60' are doable (with an auto, I just picture the getrag 282 shattering into a million pieces if I ever launch it like that). That would drop your times significantly.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:26 am 
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wannabe

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Posts: 80
Ya I have a high stall converter for the auto. I also have a set of 8.5 x 24.5 x 15 slicks so once I am happy with the engine and transmission I can throw those on. Then theres also the Nitrous kit I have kicking around :)

Eventually I will go turbo but for a couple of years I will likely stay supercharged. Lots of stuff I want to do to the car so theres always time for more in the future.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Creator of the SBC Fiero

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 100
For sure, forced inductions swaps can be a Neverending source of fun (or pain).

Is your auto trans built? I recall at certain power levels the GTP guys would but the input shafts (they would use a 300s shafts as an upgrade) and the more hardcore would run 1" GMR chains . And that's in a fwd setup. Add the traction of mid engine and slick and I am sure you will find the weak points in that drive train in no time :) but I am no auto trans guru...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:00 pm 
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wannabe

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Posts: 80
I have most of the components, waiting for my friend to have time to build it. Only the 7/8th chain that they sell in the gear swap kits, gm 1" chain is stupid expensive. Lighter car though, from what I understand the 4t65s hold up better in the Fieros then the W body cars.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:48 am 
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Single again

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 292
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Today, I had one mission in mind; finish the cooling system.
This started by installing the coolant tubes. Since my original clamps were rusted and I didn't trust using them, I made my own.
For the middle, I used these. Simple 16 gauge made at home and painted.
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I wrapped the coolant tubes with a piece of rubber hose followed by a little hockey tape to keep in together while I clamped it into place.
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For the front, I merely used some "P" clamps and a little rubber to keep things snug. Perfect.
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To keep hoses from slipping off, I had to replicate the beads that hold them in place. This was as easy as re-purposing an old set of Vicegrip pliers.
I used a washer and welded it to the Vicegrips as shown.
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I also created a relief in the opposing jaw. This gives the metal somewhere to go when forming the bead.
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I sacrificed a spare 84 coolant tube. I've since installed the 88 ones on my car.
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Here I cut off a piece to test with.
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As you can see, the end result turned out rather well. I can now rest assured knowing my coolant hoses will not slip off.
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Moving on, I used this exploded view and decided to copy the setup on my swap.
Despite both cars using crossflow rads, the inlets and outlets were not identical.
I solved this by crossing over the coolant lines and following the Ecotec design.
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Here is the stock setup.
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A few hoses and fittings.
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After forming a bead on both ends, this tube was used as shown.
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The left upper rad hose is just a 90° bearing the Topran part number: 102 721 586
The other end in a Northstar hose that I cut to fit. AC Delco part number: 26252X.
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I needed a way to get coolant from the expansion tank at the back of the car to the front. Here, a simple VW Tee fitting was used.
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The bottom crossover was kind of the same. I used a few sections from the old coolant tube and created this.
I know, it looks like a plumbing fitting for a sink. It clears the swaybar and it fits well.
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The lower rad hose is part number: 8754.
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Now that the front was taken care of, I moved on to the rear of the car. My local Napa auto parts allowed me to look through their hose selection.
I found hoses that looked like they would work with minimal modification. Here's what I ended up with.

The left side of the engine consisted of these two part numbers: 72174 and 8246.
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They then created this monstrosity.
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I took part of the 84 coolant tube and used it on the passenger's side. It clears the trailing arm well.
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The right side looked like this by joining these two hoses together. Part numbers: 8942 and 8754.
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This is the Cavalier expansion tank. It fits well in this unused space and is the highest point in the system. I now will fill the coolant and bleed the air from the system.
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I also picked up a damaged Honda VFR800 for free. I'm not sure if I'll repair it or part it out.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Addict
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:52 am
Posts: 246
Location: Port Credit, Mississauga
Remember though, "salvage" bikes can never be put on the road again so if it's tagged, you'll need to part it out.

_________________
Brian
88 GT - 'Ol Blu


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Single again

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 292
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
BigB wrote:
Remember though, "salvage" bikes can never be put on the road again so if it's tagged, you'll need to part it out.


Thanks for the public service announcement Brian.
I got lucky and the previous owner removed his plates and accepted his loss. The ownership is still fit, no brand.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:11 pm 
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wannabe

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Posts: 80
Didn't get as much done as I wanted today, but I got the cradle pulled, and removed all the old cradle bushings, prepping for the aluminum bushing install.

Half ass cleaned and painted the cradle, its better then nothing, lol.

No good pics, but will hopefully get the freshly built 4T65E-HD and my engine from last year bolted in next weekend!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Single again

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 292
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
While walking around the salvage yard, I spotted a fastback. Some parts have previously been removed. However, there were still some good parts left. I removed the steering wheel, the vapour canister, trunk seals and a spare shifter cable. All of which made their way onto my car.
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After that excursion, I took the time to double check all my hoses and connections. After all was tight, I filled the cooling system.
For those with the 2.2 Ecotec, the thermostat goes into the housing first, followed by the plastic sleeve. Orientation as shown.
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I was very pleased to finally have coolant in my car. I let it run for around a hour. In that time, I checked for fan operation, leaks, and weirdness. All is well, I called it a day.
For the record, I used an Airlift device to fill the cooling system. It works perfect and is highly recommended.
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