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 Post subject: Dance Party
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:52 am
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Location: Port Credit, Mississauga
It bounces, it sways, it rolls, and not always on-beat as the radio occasionally doesn't work ... :)

Although I'm not quite ready to proceed with the heart transplant for blu, I've decided to tear apart anyway and upgrade mounts, struts, steering dampener - well, you get the point.

So the question is - where to start.
* Smooth ride (Blondie is a little harsh)
* Great handling
* Coil-overs?
* Budget is of course always a limitation

Any input is appreciated while I tear blu apart over the next week. Having Blondie available is such a bonus!

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88 GT - 'Ol Blu


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
* Smooth ride (Blondie is a little harsh)
If you want a "smooth ride" install new "rubber", not poly suspension bushings, struts, sway bar links and leave the stock springs.
Saying "Blondie is a little harsh" is irrelevant. This is an entirely different car.
* Great handling
This comes with a price. Stiffer spring rates and better quality tires will improve handling; at the cost of being a little more harsh on the ride quality.
* Coil-overs?
Unless you feel the urge to change ride heights frequently, or run wide rear tires, this is not necessary. You'll need an alignment anytime you make adjustments.
* Budget is of course always a limitation
You can purchase items as needed. Since the cradle is solidly bolted to the chassis, it's easy enough to remove one side of the suspension and install new components. (New bushings, etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Location: Port Credit, Mississauga
Thanks for the input. More info ...

Blu & Blondie are both 88's.
I say Blondie is a bit harsh as has poly all around, and when pushing down on the back, it doesn't move.
Blu bounces up and down as if on a pogo stick.
Also, when coming off the gas, entering a corner, and back on it, I can "feel" the engine shifting around back there (engine mounts, do bone bushings?)
I was suggesting coil-overs as I do wish to drop the front a bit as is a little higher looking than the rear

Blondie has old relics on 205/55 16's vs Blu on great new(er) tires 235/45 17's

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Ah, I now see that you named a Fiero blondie. I thought that's what you called the Riviera that you were cutting up. My apologies.

If you're having difficulty pressing the back end down on blondie, then perhaps your spring rates have been changed to something substantially stiffer.

Poly all around on an 88 is not so bad. However, I would highly recommend installing OEM rubber bushings on only the trailing arms! These arms absorb the shock transmitted when you hit bumps, potholes, etc. If these are poly, the ride suffers as it transmits all the road NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) into the cabin of the car.

If blue bounces up and down like a pogo stick, that would appear to be weak/worn out shocks. Springs hold the vehicle up, shocks keep it from bouncing/oscillating.

It's easy enough to have an assistant watch the as you load up the driveline. If the engine and trans move about in the engine bay, see where the slop is. It could be a worn out dog bone, engine or transmission mount.

Coil overs are a great design. However, they also add increased cost and mounting solutions. If you want the front brought down, use this simple solution: cut the spring.
Yes, one can safely cut a spring. Just don't quench it after cutting! Zip wheel on a grinder works well. Let it cool on its own.
Now, a little more reading.

Lowering is all about compromises.

The 88's front spring rate is about 205 lbs and the rear about 143. They are quite soft and were too soft for my tastes. The issue with lowering via springs, either cut stock ones or lowering springs, is you loose suspension travel on the compression side. Cutting the stock springs will make them about 10% to 20% stiffer depending on how many coils you remove. You will notice this increased firmness, but it will not be as firm as the lowering springs that are normally in the 300 to 400 lb/in range.

Trimming down the front bump stop and flipping the rear upper strut bushing plate will gain you some additional suspension travel, but you must check for tire rubbing on the front fenders. If you only lower the front with springs, you need to add a spacer to shim the front shock mounting point down or you will bottom the shock and bend the mounting bar. The lowering ball joint helps this some because the A-arm outer pivot is lower.

The cheapest way to lower the 88 and end up with a spring rate about 30 to 40% stiffer is to use 84-87 springs up front (must cut off 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 coils depending on how low you want to go) and then take the stock 88 front spring, cut 1 coil and install it in the rear (you need to make a circular ring to fit in the top of the strut and weld a piece of 3" exhaust tubing to it to keep the spring centered).
Here is a pic with a stock 86 front spring, stock 88 front spring, 88 spring with 1 coil removed.

The 84-87 front springs are essentially the same diameter as the 88 front springs; but the 84-87 are about 1" longer in stock form and slightly stiffer. So you could put an 88 front spring in the front of an 84-87 and see a drop, but without an increase in spring rate you will hit the bump stops more often (less suspension travel). You can also put the 84-87's front springs in the front of an 88, but you need to make them shorter and adjust to get the ride height you desire. By cutting the 84-87's you will notice a moderate increase in spring rate to help with the reduced suspension travel.

The top of 84-87 rear springs are much larger diameter than the 88 rear springs at the top, so these springs are not directly interchangeable. However, they both used the same rear strut and its lower spring perch is the proper size to accept the front springs from any year Fiero... you just need to cut them for the desired ride height and make a new spring locator up top to keep the spring centered.


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Location: Port Credit, Mississauga
All good info - thanks. I decided on new monroe shocks & struts from Partsource. As well, I've ordered a few goodies including an adjustable solid dog bone from Rodney Dickman. I figure this is a good first step, then will see about replacing the bushings. One item of particular interest is Rodney's 1" ball joint drops. Seems like then I can have the stock ride, but simply 1" lower which would level out the car.

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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:19 am 
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You are probably right about the engine mounts. Before replacing the 3 engine mounts and dog bone on the Indy last year I had that same "shifty" feeling in the motor. After the repairs it is a whole new car.

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1984 Indy Fiero
B O A T - Break Out Another Thousand


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:19 pm 
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I replaced 2 of the mounts when I built blu (coming from an 87 frame), but neglected the dog bone as I stole it for one of my other builds (long since gone). Hopefully the new one will stabilize things back there.

So here's a funny one. I figure I had some time while waiting for parts so I tore out the interior for a dash-swap, stereo installation & headliner repair. I glassed the headliner and with the cool temps & dampness it's still tacky 24 hours later. Now somewhat stalled because of a job I thought was going to take a couple days ...

I guess I'm pulling out struts this evening.

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Brian
88 GT - 'Ol Blu


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:39 am 
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Do you have the headliner material yet? I ended up going to Fabricland and picking up grey felt to do mine - it turned out pretty good IMO. The colour was perfect and the texture is identical to the liner in the Titan. Relatively cheap too.

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Mark
1984 Indy Fiero
B O A T - Break Out Another Thousand


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 Post subject: Re: Dance Party
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:56 pm 
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So first some feedback from my Resin hardening issue. 2 days of moderate temps with rain/moist air in a sheltered somewhat open garage = still tacky. 2 hours in outdoor sunlight with a little warmer temps = set! I was getting a little worried I hadn't used enough hardener.

As there was nothing wrong with my liner as I did the job 6 years ago, I'm planning on reusing. The glue simply let go in the center wells (no sunroof). I had picked up the sponge fabric from an upholstery guy for $30.00. Enough for 2 headliners. Good to know though about Fabricland !

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88 GT - 'Ol Blu


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